Ron Tonkin For the Love of Schools

Save the Date:

Ron Tonkin: For the Love of Schools

The Tonkin Family of Dealerships is putting on their 3^rd Annual For the Love of Schools Race on June 1^st, 2014. Help support your school by registering for the 5K/10K fun run/walk event. The Tonkin Family is helping to raise funds for our local schools and provide the opportunity for each registrant to choose the particular school they wish their entry fee dollars to support. 100% of your entry fee will go toward your school!

Date: June 1, 2014

Location: Audi Wilsonville

26600 SW 95^th Ave

Wilsonville Or, 97070

Fee: 5K Run/Walk ($35)

10K Run/Walk ($45)

Kids 5K ($15) (14 and under)

Kids 10K ($15) (14 and under)

Registration details coming soon!

27 Days and Counting

There are 27 days left in the school year and plenty to do in those days.

We are currently in the midst of two science units, cellular respiration and the waves (both sound and light). Dr. Currey is teaching the cellular respiration unit on Monday afternoons while I teach the waves unit on Wednesdays.

In history we are beginning to wind up our unit on civil rights and social activism. Over the next few weeks students will use the historical knowledge they have learned to attack a current civil rights issue of their choice. Students have multiple options for presenting their ideas. They may create a children's book complete with illustrations, write and deliver a speech, create a documentary, or create a zine. If nothing of these speak to them, they may propose an alternative project. These projects will be due the last week of May, giving them plenty of time to work on it after NON.

Speaking of NON, it's THIS Thursday night. Students are to arrive at 6:00, already in costume, and make their way to our classrooms where we will help them get settled. Parents will go downstairs and enjoy the 4th grade Oregon History Wax Museum until we open the doors at 6:30 PM. Have you studied up on the notable people? How many can you figure out in 45 minutes? Bring your camera and a friend, it is guaranteed to be a night to remember.

The Aftermath...

When they returned, they were asked 4 questions.

1. What was the hardest thing about the day?
- Walking in the rain
- Talking to strangers and asking for help.
- Finding the right bus.
- The hardest thing about the trip was probably patience. Whenever our group was waiting at a bus stop we would keep worrying if we were on time or if we were late. On our first bus, we arrived at the stop the exact time the bus was supposed to be boarding.  We stood there for a couple minutes, constantly worrying that we missed the bus. We decided to wait a couple more minutes before we left, luckily the bus came. This same experience occurred several times in our field trip, but we learned quickly from our mistakes.
- Knowing when to get on a off the bus/MAX
- The hardest part about this field trip was missing buses, which made me go insane. We ran across Portland for our second to last bus, finally we took the MAX and everything solved itself, but it was very frustrating

2. What was the most surprising?
- How big downtown is.
- It was easier than I thought.
- I didn't break down or freak out or get lost.
- The most surprising thing about the trip was how fast time few by and how much we had to run. I personally love to run, especially when time is of the essence, which it was.

3. What part was the most fun?
- Running around downtown.
- Resting to eat.
- The people at Nordstrom's looking at us weird.
- I enjoyed the rush of this trip the most. The way the race was set, a lot of the tasks were around the same area. When we were at the library, we got our tickets ready and stood at the stop, the wait until bus was approximately ten minutes. While we were waiting, Sierra spotted US Bank across the street, we decided to go there so that we could get the points for the bank account application. As a group, we rushed there and immediately ran back after we got all the pamphlets. Once we got back, we saw a pay phone, Jackson and I immediately called you and ran back to the stop. Our group barely made it to the bus stop in time. This fast paced trip was a once in a life time experience.
- Running through the rain
- I enjoyed myself very much. I had been in Portland multiple times, but never saw it the way I saw it Friday. I enjoyed seeing all the wonderful personalities and characters of the people around me. I realized that Portland is a great city full with people not afraid to be different then the normal. In fact, my group even let me pick my own food stand and were more agreeable after everybody ate, and started to let me help them with what they should do next.
- The whole field trip was fun, and I really enjoyed the company and the chemistry we had because it made the work a lot easier. If I had to pick a favorite part though, I would definitely choose getting most of the tasks done and actually making progress.

4. What did you learn?
- How to get lost and find my way back.
- Navigating with technology isn't so bad.
- How to use the bus system better.
- This field trip taught me to use the public as a resource. There were several times in our trip when we weren't sure where to go, or how to get there. To solve that problem we would ask other bus riders, Isaiah was very familiar with this concept, however I don't really enjoy talking to strangers. Using this skill, we were able to locate the MAX, as well as find some locations. Overall this trip has taught me a lot about public transportation and how the public can be used as a great resource.
- How to use public transportation
- I learned that some people can be really demanding, especially when they have assumed authority over you. I learned that the people of Portland are like one big family, and strangers are kind and compassionate. There was one man on the tram that looked homeless to everyone else, but when I talked to him he was kind, loving and pointed us in the right direction. I learned that thorough planning is useless because plans change every minute, and I learned that if something goes wrong, it will be your fault, so make sure nothing goes wrong. I learned that if you try hard enough, people will listen to you and  be more agreeable and less hostile. All in all, I need to thank Mrs. Adams for the wonderful opportunity to learn about real life and the city we live in. I'll never forget this day.
- Being exposed to using only public transportation, I learned that you have to be on time all the time if you want to get to where you're going without being late. This was challenging, and my team missed a few buses and streetcars, but we made it and learned how to navigate through the city.

 

Course 2 Final

As we prepare to complete our course, we also look at mastery of the content. We have 14 lessons left in the book, meaning we will finish in mid May. While we are finishing up the end of the book, we are also checking of skills that may not have been mastered the first time around.

On Thursday I gave each student a math progress report. This report shows the objectives that the student has not yet demonstrated mastery on. The key word is YET. They have an entire month to work on demonstrating mastery. While we are finishing course material, students may make appointments at lunch, before school, or after school to take a quiz on a specific objective. If they demonstrate mastery on that quiz, the objective will be signed off, allowing them to move on to others. Once we finish the course material (mid May), they may use class time to take these quizzes. If a student takes the quiz and does not demonstrate mastery, they must get help with it (from me, a peer, or a parent) before trying again. Quizzes may not be repeated within 48 hours.

Once we finish the course materials and students have demonstrated mastery on all objectives, they will work on a applied mathematics hands on project.

April Field Trip

Today 21 8th graders headed out on a two part journey. First we visited the BPA substation in Oregon City. Sierra's dad showed us around, talked to us about careers in the electrical field and we got to wear hard hats!

Then, each group drove to a separate library where they were given a scavenger hunt list and an all day bus ticket. They were responsible for earning as many points as they could and returning to school using nothing but public transportation. Each group had a parent chaperone, who could do nothing for them but ensure safety.

Their scavenger hunt list is below.

Portland Scavenger Hunt

 

In any order, complete as many of the following tasks as you can and still be back at school no later than 3:30 p.m. Remember, you are representing our school and yourselves.

 

• 50 pts. Get hard copies of admission paperwork from a college or university
• 10 pts. Get a photo taken of your team at a sculpture more than 5 feet tall. Write down in your log the name of the sculpture and the artist.
• 5 pts. Play in a fountain. Take a picture.
• 50 pts. Buy lunch. It may cost you no more than $7.00 per person and must contain two servings of vegetables. Put your receipts in your log.
• 40 pts. Inquire about a job. Fill out the application and bring it back with you.
• 40 pts. Get brochures and an application for opening a bank account.
• 25pts. Ride the tram from OHSU to the Waterfront.
• 30 pts. Take a picture in front of a memorial. Write down in your log what the memorial is for.
• 25 pts. Make your way to a sporting arena. Take a picture outside the main gates.
• 25 pts. Make your way to a place that would increase knowledge. Take a picture.
• 50 pts. Make your way to a DMV office. Get the forms necessary to apply for a learners permit.
• 50 pts. Pick up a voter registration card.
• 5 pts. Ride an escalator, get photo proof.
• 25 pts. Play at least two moves in a game of chess in Pioneer Courthouse Square.
• 10 pts. Get a picture with a person performing live
• 10 pts. Capture the view of the mountain from the top of the Big Pink.
• 25 pts. Find out how much it takes to ride the Portland Spirit. Bring back a brochure.
• 10 pts. Take a picture of art found in a bus shelter.
• 10 pts. Take a picture of art found at a MAX stop.
• 75 pts. Use a payphone to check in with Mrs. Adams. (971-269-9045)
• 75 pts. Find Mrs. Adams. She is downtown enjoying a cup of hot chocolate and looking for new books to buy in the City of Books.
• 30 pts. Take a picture in front of the airport.
• 30 pts. Take a rubbing or photo of Pi underground. It is located in the only underground MAX station in Portland.

 

NON Bibilography

This weekend student's should be putting together their final piece of the NON paper, the bibliography. In class we revisisted how a bibliography is created and created a practice one. The bibliography must include everything the student used for resources, with a minimum of 4 sources being required to receive a 3.

I highly encourage students to use the Son of Citation Machine website to create their bibliography. (www.citationmachine.net) We are using MLA format, so the final product should look like this:

End of Year Details

With only 30 school days left, it's time to get ready for those final days.

We will be in Ashland June 3rd and 4th. We will leave early on the 3rd and return late on the 4th, spending one night in Ashland. While we are there we will be attending two plays, one Shakespeare play and one other performance.

On the 3rd we will see the evening performance of "The Cocoanuts".

Sun, sand and shtick
The service stinks but the gags are four-star in this Marx Brothers romp. Groucho owns a bum hotel in Florida and peddles dubious real estate to gullible Northerners seeking a place in the sun. He’s after a rich society dame, who’s after an eligible match for her daughter, who’s in love with the hotel’s head clerk. Trouble rolls in with the tide when the other Marxes arrive and mama’s eligible match turns out to be anything but. Mark Bedard (Groucho in 2012’s Animal Crackers) will adapt this jazz-age gem with songs by Irving Berlin.

On the 4th we will see the matinee performance of "The Tempest".

Rough magic and brave new worlds
For 12 years, the exiled Duke Prospero has waited for this moment: Old enemies have sailed too close to his enchanted island, and a mighty storm has forced them ashore. Now it’s time to settle old scores and reclaim his former dukedom for his daughter, Miranda. Aided by supernatural powers, Prospero dispenses justice while overseeing the growing attraction between Miranda and the princely son of one of his foes. In Shakespeare’s romance, sorcery and love transmute vengeance into humility and humanity, making it possible for all to return to a world made new by the power of forgiveness.

This production of "The Tempest" is part of Shakespeare for a New Generation, a national theatre initiative sponsored by the National Endowment for the Arts in cooperation with Arts Midwest.
Depending on any last minute money raised, we will either pack food with us and cook for ourselves, or we will go out for a nice dinner on the 3rd. I will need 5 chaperones that are willing to drive and have room for at least 5 people in their car. If you'd like to attend, please let me know!

June 11th will be our promotion ceremony. Promotion will be held here in the gym at 7:00 PM. Friends and extended family are more than welcome to join us for this celebration. The dress for the evening is formal, which means slacks, button up shirts, ties, appropriate cocktail length dresses (no strapless or spaghetti straps), etc. I am happy to preview possible attire if you're unsure about its suitability. During the ceremony we will have 3 student speakers, present everyone with their certificates, announce where people are going on to, and there's always the 8th grade dance. Afterwards we will have a small dessert reception.

If you'd like to help with decorations or the reception, please let me know. We'll be getting those committees off the ground this week.

Fundraiser Update

Thank you very much to all of the parents that donated items and the students that worked the craft sale this weekend. We made $179.25.

Great work everyone!

Bonus April Field Trip

We have been invited to the following event at La Salle Prep!

 When: Wednesday, April 30th

 Time: 10:00 am, with one intermission and the show will be over by 12:30 pm

 Who: 7th and 8th grade classes

What: Written in 1885, THE MIKADO, as well as many of Gilbert & Sullivan’s operettas, still captivate audiences the world over.  In THE MIKADO, a most delightfully nonsensical fairy tale, the authors comment on how countries of power tend to force their attitudes and social customs on to other cultures; in this case, Japan…or, at least, the fairy tale Japanese town of Titipu.  

·         Traditionally, THE MIKADO has been played with full-out Japanese clothes and make-up.  However, modern productions recognize it is essentially a fantasy story, and it can take place anywhere, anytime.  This is why La Salle’s over all visual themes in THE MIKADO are Steam Punk and Anime. 

Cascade Heights 7th and 8th grades will be attending this event on Wednesday, April 30th. Students will need to bring a sack lunch that day as the play does not end until after our regularly scheduled lunch time.

I welcome any parents who would like to join us. Please contact me as soon as you can.

The more the merrier!!!

NON Display Boards

Tomorrow we will take a look at the big picture and then break it down step by step again. The big picture tells us we have 10 school days left before Night of the Notables.

The step by step picture tells us if we have stayed on track, it's an easy downhill slide from here on out. The hard work is done!

One of the many things we will talk about tomorrow is the display board.

1. Size - The display board must be a trifold board. It should be a minimum of 36 x 48 inches. Smaller boards will not have enough room for everything required. Students are encouraged to reuse boards from previous projects.

2. Border - All boards must have a border. This border should represent the notable character in images. For example, a writer might use a pattern of pencils and books. Other border ideas include quotes or photos. The border should be high contrast and add meaning to the experience.

3. Center Panel - The center panel includes the notable character's name in large, high contrast letters. They should be at least 4 inches tall. Under the name is the black and white sketch which is being completed in art class this week. It should be backed on a high contrast piece of paper. Below that, along the bottom edge is the time line. This may go on as is or can be backed with another piece of paper for contrast.

4. Left Panel - The left panel will hold 4 trivia questions. These will be done in class so that they are formatted correctly.

5. Right Panel - This is the area for them to go wild. There is nothing official that has to be on the right panel, it is where they put other information, images, etc that they feel would enhance the presentation.

NON Countdown

15 days until Night of the Notables!

That's right, we're in the home stretch. 

 

Souvenirs were due in class at 8:00 today. They will be checked off and sent home. They are due this week to prevent last minute craziness!

Next Tuesday the final draft is due. The final draft should be typed in MLA style. It will include a title page, body, and bibliography. The bibliography will be completed in class tomorrow. The entire paper should either be stapled once in the upper left hand corner or placed in a report cover. Below you will find some of the most important guidelines, but the full style guide can be found at http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/747/01/

 

Double-space the text of your paper, and use a legible font (e.g. Times New Roman). The font size should be 12 pt.

Leave only one space after periods or other punctuation marks

Set the margins of your document to 1 inch on all sides.

Indent the first line of paragraphs one half-inch from the left margin. MLA recommends that you use the Tab key as opposed to pushing the Space Bar five times.

Create a header that numbers all pages consecutively in the upper right-hand corner, one-half inch from the top and flush with the right margin.

In the upper left-hand corner of the first page, list your name, your instructor's name, the course, and the date. Again, be sure to use double-spaced text.

Double space again and center the title. Do not underline, italicize, or place your title in quotation marks; write the title in Title Case (standard capitalization), not in all capital letters.

Use quotation marks and/or italics when referring to other works in your title, just as you would in your text: Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas as Morality Play; Human Weariness in "After Apple Picking"

Double space between the title and the first line of the text.

The final draft of the paper is due on Tuesday. Students are asked to print two copies of their final paper. One draft will be attached to their rough drafts and key word outlines and turned in to be assessed. The second copy will be placed in a report folder or stapled neatly in the upper left hand corner of their papers. This will be their presentation copy.

If you're double checking the order, the assessment copy should be in this order from top to bottom:
Checklist, final draft consisting of: cover page, body (introduction, childhood, education, adulthood, career, analysis, conclusion), bibliography, rough draft, key word outlines.

Work Hard, Play Hard

We're working really hard in 8th grade these days. In science we're wrapping up our electricity unit and starting on sound and light. In history we've moved from life in the 50's to the Civil Rights Movement and the Rise of Social Activism. Night of the Notables everyone is doing great.

With all of this hard work comes moment of pure silliness and joy as well. Today we took a break after an intense debate about Affirmative Action t play Duck, Duck, Goose.

Everyone Play Nice!

With Spring in the air and the final days ahead of us, we are facing a slight increase in less than ideal attitudes towards each other. These issues are being addressed in class as they come up, but I would love for the conversation to continue at home.

This is an excellent time to discuss how people read body language, first impressions, and the impact of hurtful words. Sharing with your student how you deal with people you don't enjoy in respectful manners can help students find new ways to deal with each other. Talk openly about how you deal with anger, fear, hurt, and frustration. Working together we can help everyone finish the year with a positive mind set.

Thank you!

http://www.stopbullying.gov/prevention/talking-about-it/index.html
http://yourteenmag.com/2010/08/teens-talk-about-bullying/
http://blogbydonna.com/parenting-made-easy-how-to-talk-to-your-teen-about-bullying/
http://bullying.about.com/od/Responses/a/10-Ways-To-Prevent-Relational-Aggression-In-Girls.htm
http://bullying.about.com/od/Cyberbullying/a/5-Things-To-Teach-Your-Kids-About-Digital-Etiquette.htm

NON Souvenirs

NON Board Rubric

Night of the Notables Presentation Board Scoring Rubric

Objective	3	2	1	Student Assessment	Teacher Assessment
Include multimedia components and visual displays in presentations to clarify claims and findings and emphasize salient points.	All elements contribute to the audience’s understanding of the person and are meaningful	Most  elements contribute to the audience’s understanding and are meaningful	Elements do not contribute to the audience’s understanding or elements are not related to the notable person
Required Elements	All required elements (border, name, portrait, facts, timeline) are present and text is free from errors	Most required elements are present,  less than 5 errors may be present in the text	Several required elements are missing or text contains significant number of errors
Visual Presentation	Presentation is neat and visually appealing. High contrast colors are used, everything is attached firmly, and papers are not wrinkled. Obvious care taken	Presentation is visually appealing. Some care was taken. More attention to detail could have improved the final product.	Presentation is not visually appealing. Items are falling off, wrinkled, or stained.
Timeliness	Board was completed and turned in on time.	Board was not completed on time, but was finished before the presentation.	Board was not complete by the time of presentation.

NON Research Paper Rubric

Research Paper Rubric

Objective	3	2	1	Student Assessment	Teacher Assessment
Conduct short as well as more sustained research projects based on focused questions, demonstrating understanding of the subject under investigation.	Writing demonstrates an in depth understanding of the subject. Connections are made and analysis is complete.	Writing demonstrates an in depth understanding of the subject. Few connections are made or analysis is incomplete.	Writing shows a surface understanding of the subject. No connections are made.
Gather relevant information from multiple print and digital sources, using search terms effectively; assess the credibility and accuracy of each source; and quote or paraphrase the data and conclusions of others while avoiding plagiarism and following a standard format for citation.	Multiple sources are used and cited in the text. Sources come from a variety of formats. (print, web, interview, multimedia)	3 or fewer sources are used or the sources are not cited in the text. Only one type of sources is used. (print, web, interview, multimedia)	Only 1 source used. Bibliography is missing and no in text citations are used.
Produce clear and coherent writing in which the development, organization, and style are appropriate to task, purpose, and audience.	Writing is well thought out and easy to read. Tone is formal and appropriate for a research report. Word choice is academic and free from slang. Paper is organized and transitions are used from section to section.	Writing is well thought out and easy to read. Tone varies throughout the report. Transitions may be missing but paper is organized.	Writing is difficult to read and jumps from topic to topic. It is difficult to tell which section is which and transitions are missing.
With some guidance and support from peers and adults, develop and strengthen writing as needed by planning, revising, editing, rewriting, or trying a new approach, focusing on how well purpose and audience have been addressed.	Paper is well edited and free from mistakes. Student participated in the editing process and significant changes have been made throughout the process.	Paper contains less than 3 spelling, grammatical errors, or typographical errors per page. Few changes were made during the editing process.	Paper contains significant spelling, grammatical errors, or typographical errors. Student did not participate in the editing process. No changes are evident from the rough draft.
Timeliness	Paper is turned in on time.	Paper is turned in late, but before presentation day.	Paper is turned in after the presentation day.
Follows Directions	Paper is turned in with everything in the correct order. Sentence openers and dress ups are marked. Correct font, spacing, and margins are used.	Two or less directions were not followed.	More than two directions were not followed.

Souvenir Workshop

Thursday is the souvenir workshop for Night of the Notables. This is a chance for students to work together in a relaxed atmosphere with snacks, music, and friends. Teachers will be on hand to provide technical assistance and oversight.

Students should bring all of the supplies they need to work and a great attitude. We will begin right after carline and end at 5:00.

See you there!

NON Schedule

Night of the Notables and the 4th Grade Oregon History Wax Museum are coming up quickly. This very special night is one of the highlights of middle school and is a chance for your friends and family to see the amazing work done. Please mark your calendar and clear your schedules! The night is not optional for students, as it is the presentation portion of their project and students are excited to share their hard work with you.

Schedule

5:30 - 4th graders arrive in costume and set up for the Oregon History Wax Museum

5:45 - Wax Museum opens - All visitors are encouraged to visit the Wax Museum

6:00 - Students must arrive at 6:00 p.m. The doors will open for guests at 6:30 p.m. You may be thinking, "What am I going to do for 30 minutes while my student is getting ready?" Well, I have a great opportunity for you! Ms. Cantin's fourth graders will be entertaining you downstairs. They have been studying Oregon history and will have their wax museum set up. While you're waiting, visit each of the wax figures and push their button to hear their recordings.

6:30 - Wax Museum closes. 4th graders are encouraged to attend the Night of the Notables portion of the evening.

6:30 - At 6:30 the doors will open and you will be invited to start questioning the notable characters. Each character will be wearing a number and your job is to match that number to the list of characters provided. Remember, you only get three questions per character and you can only ask yes/no questions. If you'd like to do some research ahead of time, the list of characters is below! At 7:15 the notable characters will move to their display boards and you'll have the chance to match your answers to the real answers. How many do you think you can identify correctly? Students will be ready to leave WITH their display boards at 8:05.

2014 Notables

Alexander Graham Bell
Alfred Nobel
Beethoven
Florence Nightingale
Gottlieb Daimler
Maria Wollstonecraft
Napoleon Bonaparte
Orville Wright
Albert Einstein
Amelia Aerhart
Anne Frank
Anne Vallayer Coster
Audrey Hepburn
Babe Zahavious
Beckanne Sisk
Bruce Wayne
Character
Clara Barton
Claude Monet 
Coco Chanel
Corey Tenboom
Dwayne Johnson
Edith Cavell
Edwin Hubble
Elizabeth Cody Stanton
Ethel Merman
Florence Griffith Joyner
Gabrielle Douglas
Gordon Ramsey
Grace Kelly
Helen Keller
Henry Ford 
Hiram Maxim
Ida B. Wells 
Irena Sandler
James Watt
Jane Goodal
Janis Joplin
Jesse Owens
Johnny Depp
Julia Child
Kurt Cobain
Lady Emma Hamilton
Lillian Gish
Louie Armstrong
Louis Pastuer
Lucille Ball
Lyudmillia Pavlichenko
Maria Theresa 
Marilyn Monroe
Mark Tobey
Mia Hamm
Michael Jordan
Mother Theresa
Neil Armstrong
Nikola Tesla 
Olympe de Gouges
Oskar Schindler
Princess Di
Princess Margret
Queen Rania
Queen Victoria
Ricahrd Feynman
Serena William
Shawn Johnson
Shirley Temple
Stephen Hawkings
Tchaikovsky 
Thomas Edison
Vincent Van Gogh 
WC Handy
Werner Von Braun
Wilbur Wright
Will Smith



If you have any questions, please let us know!

Night of the Notables is May 1st.

April 25th Field Trip

On April 25th we will be having our second to last field trip of the year.


This month's field trip has two parts, and I will need 6 adventurous parents willing to drive. The parent chaperones need to have extreme self control because this particular trip will be challenging, both for the students and for the parent.

In part 1, we will be visiting the Electrical Substation in Oregon City for a tour with Mr. Tabaczynski. Then, we will make our way to a central point where each carload will be given their first clue in the Amazing Race. Teams of four (and one adult) will be making their way around the city using only public transportation. Along the way they will need to complete tasks, find information, and work together while attempting to be the first team back to school.

If you are adventurous, willing to stand back and watch the students figure things out while ensuring safety, and are available on the 25th, please let me know right away!

It's going to be great fun and one huge learning experience.

This much fun can't be educational right? Wrong! Students will learn/practice:
1. Using public transportation (MAX, bus, and street car)
2. Self reliance
3. Using maps
4. Reading charts and tables
5. Teamwork
6. Budgeting
7. Reading labels
8. Problem solving
9. Effective search terms
10. Questioning techniques

Promotion Speakers

I am happy to announce the three student speakers for this year's 8th grade promotion. Speakers were chosen from those that submitted a written request to speak by the deadline.

This year's speakers will be:
Gretel
Sierra
Megan

I look forward to working with them and hearing what they have to say!